At least Helen Clark is willing to speak out for her principles...
...just not with China, Iran, the United States or any other country we're chasing a trade deal with. I take your point, I/S, but still think we've really got to clean up our own situational morality first.
Anon, as someone opposed to the death penalty, that is what I want. Clark's statement is heartfelt, not over the top and is not portrayed as being 'policy' but her personal belief.
I do agree about the hypocrisy of dealing with China etc while claiming to be appalled by their human rights record, but to me this is a case of separating her personal belief from her role as head of government (and, to an extent she's damned if she do, damned if she don't).
Oh, and I/S, according to the Guardian:
"the British ambassador to Baghdad, Dominic Asquith, will be compelled to plead with the Iraqi government not to carry out the death penalty."
Not quite sure how that squares with the FCO statement (ie is it wishful thinking on the Guardian's behalf?)
Gone are the days when quotation marks were a device for indicating what someone actually said - word for word. Now it's a way of just making things up.
The British goverment's postition is that Saddam's fate should be left to the people of Iraq. Telling them what to do in these circumstances might be just a bit counter-productive.
If it's a choice between supporting Iraqi soveriegnty or an ostentatious display of anti-death penalty sentiment, I'll opt for the former.
I don't think I'm being 'tough' at all, just consistent in finding judicial murder every bit as repugnant in Beijing and Teheran as it is in Austin, TX. When Helen Clark has the testicular fortitude to publicly call China on its human rights abuses - including the simple fact it executes more of its citizens every year than Texas has managed over the last three decades, often under extremely dubious circumstances - then I'll praise her until I'm hoarse.
Craig - (choking on this ;-) I gotta agree with you.. but at least as big an irony is in her commenting on the death penalty whilst morally equivocating on whether it was a fair trial when a blind person could see it was simple victors justice.
Saddam may certainly have it coming (and if there was a better case of living by the sword and dying by it I'd be surprised..), but you'd have had to put Lord Hutton in charge to make it plainer how it was always going to end..
fair trial are next to impossible even in the best of circumstances for these sorts of crimes. But for a show trial saddam got an OK show trial.
Maybe they should have done it the Nuremburg way and found a couple of iraqis innocent, to make it look good or they could have given a fair trial and waited for saddam to die of old age like milosovich.
At least Helen Clark is willing to speak out for her principles...
ReplyDelete...just not with China, Iran, the United States or any other country we're chasing a trade deal with. I take your point, I/S, but still think we've really got to clean up our own situational morality first.
Would you really want the NZ PM (or any other similar figure) every time Texas decides to execute some poor bastard?
ReplyDeleteCrikey! That's a bit tough Craig. For my part - well done Helen Clark.
ReplyDeleteWould you really want the NZ PM (or any other similar figure) TO SPEAK OUT every time Texas decides to execute some poor bastard?
ReplyDeleteAnon, as someone opposed to the death penalty, that is what I want. Clark's statement is heartfelt, not over the top and is not portrayed as being 'policy' but her personal belief.
ReplyDeleteI do agree about the hypocrisy of dealing with China etc while claiming to be appalled by their human rights record, but to me this is a case of separating her personal belief from her role as head of government (and, to an extent she's damned if she do, damned if she don't).
Oh, and I/S, according to the Guardian:
"the British ambassador to Baghdad, Dominic Asquith, will be compelled to plead with the Iraqi government not to carry out the death penalty."
Not quite sure how that squares with the FCO statement (ie is it wishful thinking on the Guardian's behalf?)
Gone are the days when quotation marks were a device for indicating what someone actually said - word for word. Now it's a way of just making things up.
ReplyDeleteThe British goverment's postition is that Saddam's fate should be left to the people of Iraq. Telling them what to do in these circumstances might be just a bit counter-productive.
If it's a choice between supporting Iraqi soveriegnty or an ostentatious display of anti-death penalty sentiment, I'll opt for the former.
"supporting Iraqi soveriegnty"
ReplyDeleteROFL!!!
twice!
got any more laughs where that one came from, neil?
kiwi_donkey:
ReplyDeleteI don't think I'm being 'tough' at all, just consistent in finding judicial murder every bit as repugnant in Beijing and Teheran as it is in Austin, TX. When Helen Clark has the testicular fortitude to publicly call China on its human rights abuses - including the simple fact it executes more of its citizens every year than Texas has managed over the last three decades, often under extremely dubious circumstances - then I'll praise her until I'm hoarse.
Craig - (choking on this ;-) I gotta agree with you.. but at least as big an irony is in her commenting on the death penalty whilst morally equivocating on whether it was a fair trial when a blind person could see it was simple victors justice.
ReplyDeleteSaddam may certainly have it coming (and if there was a better case of living by the sword and dying by it I'd be surprised..), but you'd have had to put Lord Hutton in charge to make it plainer how it was always going to end..
fair trial are next to impossible even in the best of circumstances for these sorts of crimes. But for a show trial saddam got an OK show trial.
ReplyDeleteMaybe they should have done it the Nuremburg way and found a couple of iraqis innocent, to make it look good or they could have given a fair trial and waited for saddam to die of old age like milosovich.