Monday, September 12, 2005



Tactical voting in Epsom

It's official. On Nine To Noon this morning, Stuart Nash, Labour candidate for Epsom, urged Labour supporters in the seat to give their candidate vote to National's Richard Worth in order to keep ACT out of Parliament. If they listen, it's "bye-bye Rodney" - and more importantly, bye bye Muriel Newman and bye bye Stephen Franks, neither of whom I will be sorry in the least to see go.

Posted by Idiot/Savant at 9/12/2005 11:08:00 AM

14 comments:

I heard that interveiw too and was pretty amazed to hear Nash say vote National. It may indeed by goodbye to ACT (at least as things are now, we know where they are).
If "Scary Spice" Peters also does not get up and NZ First gets below 5% then the Nats will be terribly lonely.
Actually it would not be good for us as the representativeness of Parliament would be diminished.

 Posted by Anonymous : 9/12/2005 11:34:00 AM

Parliament and NZ would be poorer for the absence of ACT. But I wouldn't expect you to understand. The concept of being able to like and/or respect people in spite of their differing views is quite foreign to you.

An almost evangelical fanaticism grips you and many others. Politics shouldn't be about fanaticism. But of course, it is. Only those who rise above tribalism are able to think freely. But wow... the security of running with the mob is so hard to give up.

Rejoice in the disappearance of ACT if it turns out to be. But you must learn not to confuse the message with the messengers.

There are a few exceptions to that of course, but they lie with individuals, not with a whole party. Although I note the lack of parliamentary privelidge on the campaign trail has muted them.

You're still unable to comment without foaming at the mouth and twitching with the, left, eye ;-)

Repeat after me: free thinkers question their own belief system all the time.

Nah. Waste of my time. But then it was mine to waste.

For my own entertainment purposes I do wish a Nat/Act Government gets elected - if only to see how this challenge develops your abilities. Or will it?

 Posted by Anonymous : 9/12/2005 12:11:00 PM

Great news, if true. Cleaning ACT out of parliament would be a triumph for democracy.

 Posted by Anonymous : 9/12/2005 12:17:00 PM

Huh? ACT being in parliament is undemocratic? Now I've heard it all. Must have missed the armed uprising.

Foam

Mouth

Mob

Tribal

 Posted by Anonymous : 9/12/2005 12:25:00 PM

Anon/Anons:

Did you shed crocodile tears when the Alliance lost its place in Parliament?

When Labour was polling 16% in the mid-1990s, did you secretly wish it might disappear from Parliament altogether?

Right now, ACT has a democratic mandate to be in Parliament. It is possible that on Saturday that will lose that mandate, and some (perhaps many) of their opponents will be happy to see them go.

Disagreement with ACT MPs and/or policies is not the same thing as fanaticism or tribalism. In any case there is no shortage of these qualities among some right-wing bloggers out there ... check out the comments section in a blog near you.

 Posted by dc_red : 9/12/2005 12:50:00 PM

Good heavens! LAst thing we need is people in politics that actually believe in principles and work outward from that.

No, better to have jelly spined, wherever the wind blows, did-I-say-that-I-meant-the-other died-in-the-wool archetypal politicos.


As for Right wing Bloggers foaming at the mouth... I hold them up to the same expectations. But since we're in school yard logic now, I said it first, so you're it.

[sigh]

.

 Posted by Anonymous : 9/12/2005 01:07:00 PM

Balach: that's the downside - but ultimately it's a problem with the threshhold. If it was lowered or removed, then who won Epsom would be far less relevant.

Anon: Oh, I agree Parliament would be poorer for ACT's absence - they've done a far better job than National of holding the government to account. But I don't think that translates into any obligation on left-wing voters to stand aside or help or not hinder ACT getting into Parliament. And pragmatically, of course, standing by would simply be stupid...

 Posted by Idiot/Savant : 9/12/2005 01:11:00 PM

If Act had lived up their strapline of "the Liberal party" I might have more respect for them.

As it is, they decided to go down the tried and trusted right-wing route of pandering to bigotry (I don't think many of them really believe in bigotry, just as I don't think Brash is really a bigot himself) in order to try and persuade people to vote against their own interests.

It didn't work, largely because the market for right-wing-bigoted parties is a little crowded.

 Posted by Rich : 9/12/2005 01:50:00 PM

I'd have Rodney and Heather Roy ahead of pretty much any National MP, but Act will deserve its fate. All the money that's been poured into that party by its benefactors and what a sorry herd of cats it's been.

The Greens, on the other hand, really deserve their shot at coalition government. They're decent, organised and consistent. Everything Act hasn't been.

Cheers,
RB

 Posted by Anonymous : 9/12/2005 02:32:00 PM

wont it be nice if Act get 3% party vote and dont win epsom :)

 Posted by Anonymous : 9/12/2005 03:31:00 PM

Anon: yes from the point of view of electoral victory, and at the same time no, because 3% of the electorate will have been disenfranchised. But again, that's the fault of the stupid and undemocratic threshhold, and there's no obligation on voters to help anyone across it unless they want to.

 Posted by Idiot/Savant : 9/12/2005 03:56:00 PM

I'd be sorry to see ACT go, because some of them genuinely were of "The Liberal Party". But I'll probably shed as many tears over it as ACT supporters did over the loss of the Alliance.

 Posted by Anonymous : 9/12/2005 04:48:00 PM

ACT is wasting right votes by basically lying on the radio that they will win epsom. Labour doesnt need to say "vote national" national wil romp in anyway.

ACT has a better chance of preventing a right leaning government than it does of creating it.

 Posted by Genius : 9/12/2005 06:52:00 PM

Too much "tactical voting", and we could end up bowing down to our National Corporate Overlords, and their Brethren Church jackals.

At this moment - 2 ticks for Labour/Greens sound good to me.

And by the way - Good riddance to ACT..

 Posted by Anonymous : 9/12/2005 06:52:00 PM

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